There are large parts of the British society I am proud of but many that disgust me.
You have to accept there are problems to be part of the solutions.
-
Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )
Embedded discrimination
- Thread starter Squag1
- Start date
You have to accept there are problems to be part of the solutions.
Like any society.
Absolutely.
As I said, there are so many that can’t see or can’t be bothered about the embedded problems in our society it’s hard to see solutions.
A lot of people are waking up to ‘subconscious bias’ - which we all have - and that is a step in the right direction.
Britain is rife with discrimination, I abhor the “taking the knee” not because I don’t support anti racism but it is a symbol used by the black power & black panther movements. Because I haven’t jumped on the woke bandwagon I’m called a racist by people too young to realise exactly what they are symbolising when taking the knee.
I get really fed up hearing the phrase "subconscious bias" because it seems to be applied exclusively to issues of skin colour and has been weaponised to bully the whole of the white population of this country into accepting some sort of collective guilt and shame for historical racism and for the racism that some coloured people are subjected to today by a minority. The implication in the phrase and the way that is being used is that we, the white population, are inherently racist because of what our forefathers did..... therefore we must atone for it by accepting that we are all subconsciously racist and by being "educated" to better understand and rectify our collective faults.
I object to that. I am not a racist and history certainly plays no part in how I treat or behave towards an individual who happens to be different to me in some way.
Ultimately everyone has some form of "subconscious bias"...it's not uniquely a skin colour issue. Ever since Man became tribal we have had "subconscious bias". It has been perpetrated against people because they are bikers, ginger, short, fat, gay, disabled, wear glasses, how they dress, what country they are from, what they do for a living, what town they live in, what regional accent they speak with, what tribe they are from, what religion they follow, what team they support, who they vote for .....the list is endless.
It wasn't that long ago that shops, pubs, digs, etc. would display "No Irish" in their windows, yet we're not taking the knee in support of our Irish friends, we're not teaching that in schools and we're not seeing a sudden growth industry in "subconscious bias" classes on that particular subject.
To apply the phrase "subconscious bias" exclusively to people of a certain skin colour is to ignore the fact that human beings are inherrently biased. No-one has a monopoly on being subjected to negative bias or prejudice.
Last edited:
I’m not sure what point you are making if I’m honest, and I don’t particularly agree that subconscious bias has been ‘weaponised‘ as a guilt trip for white people. Just my opinion.
Subconscious bias relates to pretty much every aspect of human behaviour, not just race/colour/religion although those are areas where it is unbelievable how many people think ‘they haven’t a racist (for example) bone in their body’ but have quite strong subconscious bias. That doesn’t necessarily make them ‘racist’ in an overt sense, but a better appreciation of their subconscious bias gives a better understanding of what the embedded issues in society are.
I am not too proud to admit I discovered subconscious bias in myself when tested, some of which I don’t like, but I would rather know about it and use it positively than remain uninformed. I would wager that every single person of every race/colour/religion would display subconscious bias when tested …if they do it honestly.
I'm not sure there is ever an easy way to understand or interpret this subject.
I'm of Irish descent and for many years worked for an Irish airline - at the height of the IRA activities. I was very conscious of my background in those days and often met with reactions when I said who I worked for.
Is that discrimination?
I never interpreted it as such.
More recently, about 15 years ago in London my son and I were in London and went into a McDonald's. We felt very out of place and uncomfortable, was it us or the staff & other customers. We we're looked over for service, eventually served when it became clear we weren't going to leave.
In a work context I was discussing managing these issues with folks from the the CRE and other such organisations. I commented that I felt it would remain a potential issue unless society could get to a position where differences weren't consciously or unconsciously noticed.
The chap from the CRE launched into a verbal assault at me for attempting to play down and ignore his heritage of which he was very proud.
I believe I don't discriminate with anyone for any reason. But if course that's my view!
These days discrimination has become an "industry" and those who earn a living from it have a vested interest in keeping it going.
When did a plumber or builder ever say "that's OK, you can sort that out yourself, you don't need me"
I'm of Irish descent and for many years worked for an Irish airline - at the height of the IRA activities. I was very conscious of my background in those days and often met with reactions when I said who I worked for.
Is that discrimination?
I never interpreted it as such.
More recently, about 15 years ago in London my son and I were in London and went into a McDonald's. We felt very out of place and uncomfortable, was it us or the staff & other customers. We we're looked over for service, eventually served when it became clear we weren't going to leave.
In a work context I was discussing managing these issues with folks from the the CRE and other such organisations. I commented that I felt it would remain a potential issue unless society could get to a position where differences weren't consciously or unconsciously noticed.
The chap from the CRE launched into a verbal assault at me for attempting to play down and ignore his heritage of which he was very proud.
I believe I don't discriminate with anyone for any reason. But if course that's my view!
These days discrimination has become an "industry" and those who earn a living from it have a vested interest in keeping it going.
When did a plumber or builder ever say "that's OK, you can sort that out yourself, you don't need me"
That's exactly the point Cougar377 was making, that you claimed you weren't sure what point he was making.
"I’m not sure what point you are making if I’m honest" .... well at the risk of repeating myself, let me enlighten you.... I get really fed up hearing the phrase "subconscious bias" .... it's called "expressing an opinion".
You introduced the subject of "subconscious bias" and I gave my opinion. As we are on a forum (def: a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged) it seemed not unreasonable that your comment might elicit a response. In this case, mine.
I think Casper pretty much covered the rest of your response....
That's exactly the point Cougar377 was making, that you claimed you weren't sure what point he was making.
Last edited:
We seem to be talking at cross purposes so I’ll take a step back in the interest of world peace.
"I’m not sure what point you are making if I’m honest" .... well at the risk of repeating myself, let me enlighten you.... I get really fed up hearing the phrase "subconscious bias" .... it's called "expressing an opinion".
You introduced the subject of "subconscious bias" and I gave my opinion. As we are on a forum (def: a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged) it seemed not unreasonable that your comment might elicit a response. In this case, mine.
I think Casper pretty much covered the rest of your response....
That's exactly the point Cougar377 was making, that you claimed you weren't sure what point he was making.
I have absolutely no idea what Sr71 was saying and even less interest.
Now who's being subconsciously bias? or is that unconsciously bias? or consciously bias???
It’s very conscious!!
Is subconscious bias a bad thing? If I was an employer conducting an interview for a front of house job & say there were two candidates,
A) smart suit, clean & well presented
B) smart suit, clean, several face piercings.
A gets the job everytime
A) smart suit, clean & well presented
B) smart suit, clean, several face piercings.
A gets the job everytime
Interesting point. One of my subconscious biases is against people with tattoos.
Should it make a difference? It did to me and I am ok with that ….. up to a point. But it shouldn’t really.
At least I am aware of it now
I have tattoos
This is where I think it can get interesting.
Why shouldn't it make a difference to you?
We have recently had a guy start work with who was originally from South Africa.... I broached the subject of racism with him the other day and had a somewhat lengthy and informative conversation with him.
He grew up in the age of apartheid and he said we don't really know what racism is in this country...... Most of it is based on what we hear and no one fully understands, what it's like to be a black man living under those conditions. He said you could be shot if you were seen with a white man, harrased by the police if you went into a whites only area.... The list goes on.
He has been in this country for a number of years now..... His opinion is that most people in this country aren't racist but just damn right rude...i have to say I agree with him.
He doesn't believe in all the black lives matter type organisations.He just sees it as another group of people pretending they know.
Like I say it was a very informative conversation coming from someone who lived under years of oppression.
He grew up in the age of apartheid and he said we don't really know what racism is in this country...... Most of it is based on what we hear and no one fully understands, what it's like to be a black man living under those conditions. He said you could be shot if you were seen with a white man, harrased by the police if you went into a whites only area.... The list goes on.
He has been in this country for a number of years now..... His opinion is that most people in this country aren't racist but just damn right rude...i have to say I agree with him.
He doesn't believe in all the black lives matter type organisations.He just sees it as another group of people pretending they know.
Like I say it was a very informative conversation coming from someone who lived under years of oppression.
Guy I knew had a healthy collection of tattoos, ear ring and "looked the part"
He called to the house one day and spotted my daughter's guinea pig.
Next he was down playing with the animal. Not what people might expect.
Daughter and husband have tattoos. He has a lot. My son would be a million miles from getting on. My daughter wears a large watch at interviews!!
It has crossed my mind. Apparently with some people once you start......
A guy on tv years ago had EVERYTHING tattoos, even the bell.
He called to the house one day and spotted my daughter's guinea pig.
Next he was down playing with the animal. Not what people might expect.
Daughter and husband have tattoos. He has a lot. My son would be a million miles from getting on. My daughter wears a large watch at interviews!!
It has crossed my mind. Apparently with some people once you start......
A guy on tv years ago had EVERYTHING tattoos, even the bell.
1977 we anchored off Bermuda, we were told not to visit Certain areas, particularly in Hamilton as we would probably be stabbed just for being white, as matelots tend to do we visited several bars, some we immediately left as we were the only white people there & it was clear we weren’t welcome.
Grand Cayman is an occasional posting for Prison Officers, sounds like paradise until you talk to people who actually signed up for the two year posting, even the black Prison Officers hated them.
Grand Cayman is an occasional posting for Prison Officers, sounds like paradise until you talk to people who actually signed up for the two year posting, even the black Prison Officers hated them.