Electrical problem on the Algarve any advice appreciated

[Africanbird]

Hi All

A few of us set off for the Algarve last Saturday and on the first day in Spain the 04 Blackbird wouldn't start at the first fuel stop. We got it bump started and at the overnight stop took a closer look and determined it was the solenoid that was the problem so had a new one shipped out to our destination near Villamoura and bump started it for 3 days on the way down.

This morning we replaced the solenoid it started first time but that was it at the second attempt it just killed all the power.

This is what's happening:

1. Ignition on and everything powers up and FI light goes off
2.PRess the starter button and everything goes off including the clock
3. Switch ignition off and clock comes back on

We have rigged an independent earth for the battery and that has made no difference.

Its an 04 bird with no special mods just run the odd heated jacket and gps etc but all those are disconnected at the moment

Any help would be much appreciated

Thanks
Rod

 

[carler]

Assuming the battery is not flat, what about the lead from the battery to the solenoid.
Clean connections on bat and solenoid and look at the crimped connections pinch them with a pliers.
Could you rig an independent for it?

 

[lee j]

Is the battery any good? Have you checked the battery readings at rest and also when you thumb the starter? Mine had a similar problem and wa a u/s battery (then the reg/rec and alternator neede replacing). My battery reading was 12.8v at rest but then fell to 2.1v when starting. Are you getting a charge to the battery? should be 14.2v approx. at 3K revs rising to max of 14.8v at 5K revs, over 15v is overcharge. Would have thought that as you managed to get that many miles after bump-starting then it sounds like it is charging but by how much is another question.

Lee

 

[robsbird]

i would say the battery has gone.

as the bike will run and make its own power but the battery is not holding its charge and running like this you stand a good chance of cooking the charging system.

 

[andyBeaker]

Can't help thinking the charging system is yet again the issue. Battery problems on a Bird are almost always down to a duff reg/rec or/and generator.

Best advice I can give is to charge the battery at every opportunity until you get back.

If the charging system is totally fried you can get around 50 miles out of a fully charged battery on an FI without the lights on. I would guess this would increase significantly if you bump start rather than using the starter.

Good luck!

 

[lee j]

As per my comments in post#3 my battery had gone dry - lost half its fluid and only 6 years old, hence the reason for not holding a charge or charging properly causing strain/overload on the reg/rec and alternator.

Lee

 

[Centaur]

We could be guessing all day, Rob.

A cheap voltmeter available even on the Algarve will find the problem. Set the meter to 20vDC and put the probes across the battery. You would expect to see about 12.6v if the battery is in good nick and less than two years old. Then press the starter and see what the voltage drops to. About 11 volts odd while the bike is turning over or if it is, as I suspect, the battery then the voltage will drop to a couple of volts as your engine is not turning over. Is the solenoid clicking? If you bump start it and put the meter across while the engine is running you should see 14+ volts as others have said. It may be just the battery has given up on it's own or it could be reg/rec or alternator failure which has flattened the battery. A meter will tell the story. Good luck Rod. :-0)

 

[Africanbird]

Thanks to all for you replies, so far we have determined it is not the solenoid after all. Quick test with a light bulb on the starter side proved that.

The majority seem to be pointing to battery so tomorrow we will go looking for a multi meter and take if from there. At least we can bump start it

I'll update tomorrow
Thanks

 

[Africanbird]

Morning All

So it is the battery that is the problem after all.
Got a loan of jump leads and a multimeter from the hotel maintenance man and the battery is dropping to around 6 volts when you hit the starter button and then its not resetting we have to disconnect the solenoid to get it set. With jumper leads all works fine. There is a bike shop 12 miles down the road from us where we should be able to get a battery tomorrow morning, if not we are here until Thursday so can get one ordered.

I have to acknowledge the assistance we have had from the hotel here the staff cannot do enough for us. http://www.formosapark-hotel.com/ highly recommended even if you don't have bike problems.

Thanks again to everyone for your comments they were most helpful.
Rod

 

[Centaur]

The next question is.........

is it the battery alone or is the battery flat because it is not being charged, AB. When you replace the battery stick a meter across it with the engine running to ensure the charging system is OK. If not, a new battery will get you about one hundred miles before it needs charging again! Ask Andybirdless! He is the site expert at running on a flat battery. 8rfl@

 

[andyBeaker]

is it the battery alone or is the battery flat because it is not being charged, AB. When you replace the battery stick a meter across it with the engine running to ensure the charging system is OK. If not, a new battery will get you about one hundred miles before it needs charging again! Ask Andybirdless! He is the site expert at running on a flat battery. 8rfl@

Yup,,commuted 25 miles each way for three weeks with a totally dead charging circuit, just recharging the battery at the end of each journey.

Bit like Russian roulette, but fortune favoured the brave on this occassion:-0)

Let's hope our problem in Portugal is just the battery.......although history suggests the battery will be the symptom, not the cause.-(

 

[57grant]

While you are there, disconnect the earth point from the frame under the seat left side as you sit on bike, clean it up well and reattach, over the years the earth can get corroded and cause starting problems

Good luck

Grant

 

[Africanbird]

We have had a new battery in for 2 days now and all seems well. We bump started it for 5 days on the way down so it appears to be charging fine.
We turn for home tomorrow morning 3 days to get to Llanes will be the test

Another recommendation if you need any bike help near Faro: http://www.andardemoto.pt/oficinas-motos/dir/d/faro/c/faro/p-20821/moto-gand/

Although a Suzuki dealer they are very helpful and know all about the ins and outs of the Blackbird electrical system and its potential points of failure

Once again thanks to all who offered advice.
Cheers
Rod

 

[Centaur]

Safe home AB.

The fact that it kept going for five days after bump starting would suggest that the battery alone was shagged and once started the charging system was supplying enough power to keep the bike running. @tu*

 

[andyBeaker]

Looks like a happy ending@tu*

Personally I would advise anyone going on a long tour to carry a spare reg/rec and generator (and gasket) with them, particularly if going to hot climes. Maybe a battery as well, but that should be easy enough to source pretty much anywhere.

Many will view as over cautious, and the best result would be to end the tour with all spare parts unused.

It's just what I would do.

Actually it's not - I would be in the car.:-0)

 

[Centaur]

Mini voltmeter.

All cars have a warning system to tell the driver of a charging failure. A mini-voltmeter will not only do this on a bike but will also, if the voltage before and during starting is watched, give a good idea of the state of the battery in the long term. All for 99p from China and 10 minutes to fit. :-0)

 

[noobie]

I don't know if these are any good but it is a general idea I think? By the way, there are loads of different types with some having usb outlets too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-24...hash=item41ad1db80d:m:mQwkyaiPw69O0gQVVidESNA

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-in-1-Ca...969845?hash=item210f8f4af5:g:tb8AAOSw74FXObuG

 

[rolf.b]

I don't know if these are any good but it is a general idea I think? By the way, there are loads of different types with some having usb outlets too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-24...hash=item41ad1db80d:m:mQwkyaiPw69O0gQVVidESNA

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-in-1-Ca...969845?hash=item210f8f4af5:g:tb8AAOSw74FXObuG

I installed one of the top ones but in red below the clocks. Been O.K. for the 18 months I've had the bike. Did put it in the r/h infill at one point but couldn't see it very well in the sun.

 

[andyBeaker]

Haven't looked at those links but a cheap digital voltmeter does the job, piece of whatsit to wire in and easily secured with a bit of heavy duty Velcro on top of the dash under the screen.

However, I found a LED voltage indicator light to be more useful, a very easily understood high visibility way of knowing if all is good. Once I had one of these fitted both times my charging circuit packed up I knew immediately and well in advance of the inevitable being left at the side of the road. Can be found in eBay for less than a tenner.

Both being installed is ideal, and both very easy to do.

If you only do one, do the warning light IMHO.

 

[Centaur]

Unsurprisingly, I disagree with Andy!

Haven't looked at those links but a cheap digital voltmeter does the job, piece of whatsit to wire in and easily secured with a bit of heavy duty Velcro on top of the dash under the screen.

However, I found a LED voltage indicator light to be more useful, a very easily understood high visibility way of knowing if all is good. Once I had one of these fitted both times my charging circuit packed up I knew immediately and well in advance of the inevitable being left at the side of the road. Can be found in eBay for less than a tenner.

Both being installed is ideal, and both very easy to do.

If you only do one, do the warning light IMHO.

A voltmeter is much more accurate and will display long term trends which will show the "wear state" of the battery. Batteries degenerate and the warning led will only tell you when your battery/charging system has failed. IMHO charging systems fail mainly because the degradation of the battery puts an increasing load on the charging system which ultimately fails leaving one at the side of the road and considerably out of pocket as battery AND charging system have to be replaced. Don't fit both but always have a look at the battery voltage on your mini-meter before and during starting as well as during riding. The initial voltage and the voltage shown during starting will decrease as the battery wears out....which it will. 8rfl@