In the News Electric ? They are getting close !

[Ajeman]

I still don't think electric cars are the future. The cost of the infrastructure alone would put a halt to everyone going electric, and that's if they can overcome the engineering issues of such a massive demand spike when everyone got home (And the drop in demand when everyone leaves there home in the morning, unplugging the car, turning the lights off, etc..)

Then you have the environmental impact of electric cars. Batteries are very resource intensive to produce and use some pretty nasty chemicals in there production, and then you have to add the fact that the components are strip mined and transported around the world by polluting ships before they're assembled into your 'green' car. On top of that the lifespan in only a few years, and I know the technology is getting better but an internal combustion engine (properly maintained) could still be going in 100+ years.

I have always believed that hydrogen is where we should be diverting our attention. It's abundant in the atmosphere, we can also make it, it can be delivered by conventional means as the LPG infrastructure is already in place. Existing engines can be converted quite easily to run on it, meaning were not scrapping the entire fleet of cars already on the road and classics can be converted too. With enough scale in production the natural gas supply to homes could also be converted, and small scale power stations could also be run on it to provide 'peaking' plants that provide additional power into the grid at peak times.

The production of hydrogen requires electricity, but this would be a base load (Not really fluctuating) so would suit nuclear power, with topping up coming form other sustainable sources.

And the best thing about hydrogen.....We already have the technology, proven on a national scale, to change over very quickly. All we need is the motivation for change.

Regards,

Alex

 

[andyBeaker]

Which is all well and good if you're only running around town. If you have anything more than a short commute, then intended distances have to be considered when buying an electric car. One of the things that upsets the Tesla owners is that when ordering the car with meatier batteries for longer journey capability, the price skyrockets at an alarming rate.

Fair point - electric cars are not currently (boom boom) suitable for long journeys, hence the charging points at motorway services are generally notable only by the tumbleweed blowing across them.

I have no idea what the average car journey is for most folk, but I would suggest 90% if not more of journeys are a round trip of less than 20 miles which absolutely falls into making electric viable. However, the other 10% of journeys need a more traditional form of energy and there are few who will want to buy two cars to do the same job.

It all takes time - I am sure batteries for electric cars have improved exponentially in the last ten/twenty years even if they have a long way to,go to become viable as an alternative to owning one petrol car.

I was passenger in an i8 last year for about half an hour.....if that is the future bring it on!

 

[andyBeaker]

I still don't think electric cars are the future. The cost of the infrastructure alone would put a halt to everyone going electric, and that's if they can overcome the engineering issues of such a massive demand spike when everyone got home (And the drop in demand when everyone leaves there home in the morning, unplugging the car, turning the lights off, etc..)

Then you have the environmental impact of electric cars. Batteries are very resource intensive to produce and use some pretty nasty chemicals in there production, and then you have to add the fact that the components are strip mined and transported around the world by polluting ships before they're assembled into your 'green' car. On top of that the lifespan in only a few years, and I know the technology is getting better but an internal combustion engine (properly maintained) could still be going in 100+ years.

I have always believed that hydrogen is where we should be diverting our attention. It's abundant in the atmosphere, we can also make it, it can be delivered by conventional means as the LPG infrastructure is already in place. Existing engines can be converted quite easily to run on it, meaning were not scrapping the entire fleet of cars already on the road and classics can be converted too. With enough scale in production the natural gas supply to homes could also be converted, and small scale power stations could also be run on it to provide 'peaking' plants that provide additional power into the grid at peak times.

The production of hydrogen requires electricity, but this would be a base load (Not really fluctuating) so would suit nuclear power, with topping up coming form other sustainable sources.

And the best thing about hydrogen.....We already have the technology, proven on a national scale, to change over very quickly. All we need is the motivation for change.

Regards,

Alex

Good stuff. London buses run on hydrogen so there must be something to it.

I ran an lpg car for about six years and still can't get my head round why it isn't used more...cleaner, cheaper. However, the lpg network is patchy - I once drove from Manchester to the south coast without being able to fill up, although in fairness it generally wasn't,that bad, although Wales and Scotland coverage was at the time much worse than England. Where I live now I would have to drive about 15 miles to get lpg from a garage, although there are other 'non garage' sources nearer,such as farm machinery outlets.

 

[Pow-Lo]

Fair point - electric cars are not currently (boom boom) suitable for long journeys, hence the charging points at motorway services are generally notable only by the tumbleweed blowing across them.

I have no idea what the average car journey is for most folk, but I would suggest 90% if not more of journeys are a round trip of less than 20 miles which absolutely falls into making electric viable. However, the other 10% of journeys need a more traditional form of energy and there are few who will want to buy two cars to do the same job.

It all takes time - I am sure batteries for electric cars have improved exponentially in the last ten/twenty years even if they have a long way to,go to become viable as an alternative to owning one petrol car.

I was passenger in an i8 last year for about half an hour.....if that is the future bring it on!

My commute is 30 miles each way so I'd need a decent battery as well as the ability to charge at work, just in case. I go home once a month and that's a 400 mile round-trip, which would again necessitate a larger battery.

There's no doubt batteries have improved over recent years; proof of that is in Toyota now giving eight year (I think) warranties on the Pious, which they were reluctant to do until the longevity of the batteries was proven. As you say though, a Nissan leaf with a 70 mile range would be more than enough for most people, assuming they could see past the Nissan badge. An i3 would be more up the street of the badge snobs.

An i8 could be next on my list but the prices would have to drop significantly.

 

[andyBeaker]

My commute is 30 miles each way so I'd need a decent battery as well as the ability to charge at work, just in case. I go home once a month and that's a 400 mile round-trip, which would again necessitate a larger battery.

There's no doubt batteries have improved over recent years; proof of that is in Toyota now giving eight year (I think) warranties on the Pious, which they were reluctant to do until the longevity of the batteries was proven. As you say though, a Nissan leaf with a 70 mile range would be more than enough for most people, assuming they could see past the Nissan badge. An i3 would be more up the street of the badge snobs.

An i8 could be next on my list but the prices would have to drop significantly.

Can't see you getting much of your work gear in the boot of a i8

I have just specked up an M5 with all (and I mean all) the toys...£105k, say £70k after haggling......



Bollocks to that!!

 

[Cougar377]

We'll be driving up to South Uist in a couple of months. I wonder how much time I would need to allocate to travelling and charging....

The other thing that concerns me is reliability. If you did have a breakdown and it was due to the charging/power circuit (and it was a pure electric vehicle), how well versed is your average AA/RAC, etc mechanic in the inner workings of that part of the car...? I suspect it would always be a case of towing you to the nearest dealership.

 

[derek kelly]

Lpg faded away due to cars bursting into flames I believe, was it ever a serious alternative?

 

[Pow-Lo]

Can't see you getting much of your work gear in the boot of a i8

I have just specked up an M5 with all (and I mean all) the toys...£105k, say £70k after haggling......



Bollocks to that!!

How big is the boot?

No need for an M5. The 535d will do you just fine

 

[andyBeaker]

Lpg faded away due to cars bursting into flames I believe, was it ever a serious alternative?

Where on earth did you get that gem from Derek??

 

[andyBeaker]

How big is the boot?

No need for an M5. The 535d will do you just fine

 

[slim63]

Where on earth did you get that gem from Derek??

One or two land rovers around here either went up in flames or screwed the motor up but I doubt it was to do with the LPG its self more likely to be the fitting of it by some numpty that didn't know what he was doing

A mate runs a classic range rover on LPG & has done for years, that kit was professionally fitted & hasn't caused any problems at all apart from there not being that many places around to fill the tank

 

[Jaws]

Lpg faded away due to cars bursting into flames I believe, was it ever a serious alternative?

Lord knows where you got that from !
I think it was a combination of things.
Few new cars made, conversion not cheap, lack of lpg outlets.
It is still popular with the RV crowd, and of course motorhomers such as we who have a refillable gas system. Price of a bottle of propane is now about £24, I fill up TWO 11kg bottles for about half that

 

[derek kelly]

Where on earth did you get that gem from Derek??

Due to several cars bursting into flames after filling up with lpg people lost confidence.

 

[Pow-Lo]

Due to several cars bursting into flames after filling up with lpg people lost confidence.

They lost their cars, too.