• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

In the News Copper cleared

andyBeaker

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You were lucky. I got a clip round the ear from the local bobby (who knew me), I would go home and get a clip around the other ear from a bobby namely my dad who was also a copper.

But the clip around the ear was criminalised in 1966 when a kid was caught scrumping apples, local copper caught him and clipped his ear, kid went home and told his dad who then made a complaint and the copper was prosecuted for assault.

Hence the reason why these days it is a prosecution (or a caution) rather than the clip around the ear

That scrumping kids father has a lot to answer for ;)
Did he get any apples?
 

Judge Dredd

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It would be interesting to hear what @Judge Dredd has to say
I resigned on the 1st December last year I had had enough. The CPS not charging properly, the sentence guidelines being constantly down graded and finally colleagues thinking it’s ok for police to be assaulted and spat at. Enough is enough.
 

Pow-Lo

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John, I have disagreed with your post not because I don't thing there are 'bad' plod out there - it would be naive to think otherwise- but because I don't think there can be exceptions when it is 'ok' to assault plod.
He never said it was ok to assault plod, just that he couldn’t believe it never happened to them. Significant difference.
 

slim63

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Maybe that is a difference between us - I don't think that swinging fists has or will ever solve anything!o_O

I also don't think anyone has the right to pick and choose when to observe or to ignore the law. if there is a 'wrong un' plod there are more effective ways of dealing with it than violence. A civilised society is a law respecting society.

I think you have failed to understand my post correctly (deliberately?) although I do agree with the above in part

The distinction I was trying to make is a great proportion of those that assault police wont be doing it because of the uniform or authority or whatever you want to call it but simply put they are assaulting the man (because of the pervading attitude within the force) I completely understand that need & have been sorely tempted myself as wrong as it is, no greater sentence should be expected for assaulting police than should be expected if you were to assault me imho

I used to have the greatest of respect for the police but sadly that is no longer the case since being on the wrong side of their unlawful actions, I hope you or anyone else here does not find themselves in that situation because there is nothing at all you can do but fight it in any way you can & hope for the best
 

andyBeaker

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I think you have failed to understand my post correctly (deliberately?) although I do agree with the above in part

The distinction I was trying to make is a great proportion of those that assault police wont be doing it because of the uniform or authority or whatever you want to call it but simply put they are assaulting the man (because of the pervading attitude within the force) I completely understand that need & have been sorely tempted myself as wrong as it is, no greater sentence should be expected for assaulting police than should be expected if you were to assault me imho

I used to have the greatest of respect for the police but sadly that is no longer the case since being on the wrong side of their unlawful actions, I hope you or anyone else here does not find themselves in that situation because there is nothing at all you can do but fight it in any way you can & hope for the best
Yes, .there may be cases where the assault is on 'the man' but the vast majority are on 'the uniform'. Watch the documentary and see if you agree.
 

slim63

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Yes, .there may be cases where the assault is on 'the man' but the vast majority are on 'the uniform'. Watch the documentary and see if you agree.

I have been watching it & do agree that those incidents shown are of coppers getting assaulted for nothing more than doing their job but that's the whole point of the programme, where we differ is that I think its slightly biased because that's the whole point, it makes good viewing & you will never see an incident shown where the copper was in the wrong
 

andyBeaker

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I have been watching it & do agree that those incidents shown are of coppers getting assaulted for nothing more than doing their job but that's the whole point of the programme, where we differ is that I think its slightly biased because that's the whole point, it makes good viewing & you will never see an incident shown where the copper was in the wrong
I am not going to disagree.

Resorting to violence isn't the answer though.
 

Jaws

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Full report


TEARS AS COP IS CLEARED IN TACTICAL CONTACT CASE
UK

09/05/2019



A police officer who employed "tactical contact" to knock a suspected scooter thief off his bike can keep his job because his actions were “reasonable”, a tribunal has ruled.

As reported earlier by BDN, PC Edwin Sutton faced a disciplinary hearing on Tuesday for allegedly breaching professional standards by using a “dangerous” method to stop a teenage driver escaping after a suspected handbag theft.

However the panel concluded that PC Sutton acted “reasonably” and that his action was “necessary for the apprehension of a suspected criminal”.

PC Sutton was seen wiping away tears as the decision was read out, and rank and file officers have attacked how he was treated.

The incident occurred on 21 May, 2017 when the moped driver - a 17-year-old boy known only as Mr G - was allegedly seriously injured after Pc Sutton moved his marked vehicle into the rider’s path to stop him speeding off.

Colleagues of PC Sutton, who will retire from the Met Police in four weeks’ time after 30 years of service, criticised the “absurd” misconduct procedure being brought against him by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) in the first place.

Last year the Met Police announced it would target moped thieves "at every opportunity" with the new tactical contact policy.

Ken Marsh, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said: "My colleague has been through just over two years of complete hell. His family life has suffered from it. He is four weeks from the end of 30 years of service which has been exemplary and he has had to face this.

"What do the public want? Do they want us to protect them and the streets of London. Then we will go out and do what we are doing and take bad people off the streets. But at times there will be a cost. There will be injuries. Sorry about that but we want to look after the goodies and go after the baddies.”

Marsh said the hearing was a waste of taxpayer money: "What this has cost is two years of a police officer's salary and thousand and thousands of pounds in terms of investigation. For what?

“We have no issue about the transparency of colleagues being investigated but come on. This was so straightforward, he was so evidently in the clear."

The outcome of the hearing comes days after Home Secretary Sajid Javid announced plans to change the law to give police greater protection when choosing to engage in the tactic known as a “boxing manoeuvre”. Figures showed that it had slashed moped crime by 50%.

Under Javid's proposed reforms, a new legal test will require prosecutors to recognise the skills and training of police drivers which enable them safely to carry out manoeuvres at high speed that would be regarded as dangerous or reckless if attempted by an ordinary driver.

Picture: PC Sutton was cleared of any wrong doing in yesterday's hearing, after ramming a 17-year-old suspected criminal off his moped Credit: Metropolitan Police



As a reminder of what the police are up against:

A moped gang behind a string of high profile raids are facing years behind bars.

The 12 defendants caused outrage after they were caught on CCTV targeting a woman with a young child in broad daylight in Richmond.

On 21 June last year they threatened to snatch the victim's three-year-old son unless she handed over her jewellery.

One of the defendants, Isaac McFadyen, 19, told her: "Give me your rings. I'm going to hurt your child and take him away."

The panicked woman can be seen dragging her child into the road before builders chase the gang away brandishing scaffolding poles.

The footage went viral after being circulated on social media by Britain's Got Talent judge Amanda Holden, who asked the public to "call 101 or 999 if u know these scumbags".

Taking the gang off the streets has helped cut moped-enabled crime in the capital by 52% in the space of a year, the Met said.
 

Cougar377

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I am not going to disagree.

Resorting to violence isn't the answer though.

Violence is just another form of communication and sometimes it can be the only option left to get a point across.
 

derek kelly

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If we feel threatened or if a prisoner gets in our personal space then we are allowed to use a pre-emptive strike, sounds good in theory but the fact is we face an inquiry to justify our actions, this despite cameras being all over the place.
 

Cougar377

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When my other half still worked on the wards there was a rule that if you were assaulted by a patient then you could retaliate with reasonable force in self defence.

Given that she worked on the geriatric wards for 10 years, it was surprising how many nurses and physios were assaulted. Gouging, kicking, biting, hair pulling and having liquids and other objects thrown at them were occasional problems. One physio had her finger bent back until it snapped, another was threatened with a dinner knife and one physio was pushed down the stairs.

Granted, some patients were suffering with Dementia or similar, but many were just downright nasty and could get quite vicious, especially the old dears.
 
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