• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

Be careful (Bit graphic if you are a snowflake)

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
My brother had a horrific bike accident
in the 70's. Lost an arm, multiple fractures
in the left leg. Watched him for years suffering from 'phantom limb syndrome'.
One of the reasons that the Doctors would not/will not remove my knackered left foot despite asking on several occasions is because of Phantom Limb syndrome.

There view is that if I can suffer the pain, it is more comfortable and bearable than having limb that hurts which isn't there.

On top of which, they said no point until I have my knackered hip replaced, and they won't do my hip until my foot is off and vice versa, and now neither will consider it because of my knackered ticker and being on Warfarin.

I am now paying the price for my ego and pride for refusing to use a walking stick when I was first injured... :rolleyes:

But the point of my drivel, is I understand what you brother has endured to a degree.
 

Jaws

Corporal CockUp
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor

I always wonder how people on bikes hit lamp posts. I'm sure if you tried you would have difficulty.
Its optical lock in
As much as your forebrain tells you to turn away, your hind brain wants you to go where you are looking
I would guess that as many as 30% of accidents are caused by it.. at least those accidents not involving a 3rd party
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
There was one a few years ago where someone crashed through the window of a cafe, they searched for his trainer, it was stuck in the ceiling with his foot still in it, sure it was on here
 

Pow-Lo

Make civil the mind, make savage the body.
Club Sponsor
Its optical lock in
As much as your forebrain tells you to turn away, your hind brain wants you to go where you are looking
I would guess that as many as 30% of accidents are caused by it.. at least those accidents not involving a 3rd party
I read about this in one of the bike mags years ago, Ride, I think. It popped up a short while after I nearly came a cropper by being distracted by a quite attractive young female walking along the road and I was fixated by her instead of what I was riding. I then rode home sat in cottage pie.
 

slim63

Never surrender
Club Sponsor
Its optical lock in
As much as your forebrain tells you to turn away, your hind brain wants you to go where you are looking
I would guess that as many as 30% of accidents are caused by it.. at least those accidents not involving a 3rd party
Yep target fixation ........ eg you go where you are looking

I have been in the situation a couple of times where I have had to force myself to look where I need to be rather than at what I am in danger of hitting and its a bloody difficult thing to do in the few seconds you have to spare
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
this is such a cheerful thread.

one of the things that sticks in my mind from when I did BikeSafe was discussing an accident where a bike went into a lamppost at around 20mph and both rider and pillion were killed.
 

Malone

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
On a lighter vein - one of my junior staff, only 17, rode home on his 125 and crashed on a local bridge. He slid off head first, arms outstretched and ended up in a heap barely conscious.

when he came too, barely 30 seconds later he realised he was in considerable pain in both arms. His gauntlets were several yards away from him, and looking down at his arms he only saw the ends of his jackets.

realising he had lost both of his hands in the crash he promptly passed out. Soon after he was gathered up in an ambulance and carted off to hospital for repair.

To his great delight he discovered that the pain was 2 broken arms, his gauntlets had flown off in the crash as they were hand me downs and too big. Also his second hand jacket was also 2 sizes too big and the arms finished past his finger tups.

His embarrassment grew when he realised his mum had to look after his every needs for the next few weeks until he was able to regain the use of his hands.
 

Malone

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
One of the guys I worked with decided to leave the comfortable (menial) job driving the firms van to become a paramedic ambulance driver.
he came into work one day to say hello etc. and told us of his very first job responding to a collision involving a mini. He said they had to recover the body, 100%dead, and then spend a while with a shovel and pan scraping up body parts into a bag.
 

derek kelly

The Deli lama
Club Sponsor
On a lighter vein - one of my junior staff, only 17, rode home on his 125 and crashed on a local bridge. He slid off head first, arms outstretched and ended up in a heap barely conscious.

when he came too, barely 30 seconds later he realised he was in considerable pain in both arms. His gauntlets were several yards away from him, and looking down at his arms he only saw the ends of his jackets.

realising he had lost both of his hands in the crash he promptly passed out. Soon after he was gathered up in an ambulance and carted off to hospital for repair.

To his great delight he discovered that the pain was 2 broken arms, his gauntlets had flown off in the crash as they were hand me downs and too big. Also his second hand jacket was also 2 sizes too big and the arms finished past his finger tups.

His embarrassment grew when he realised his mum had to look after his every needs for the next few weeks until he was able to regain the use of his hands.
Good friend of mine’s brother in law had a bad accident, broke both his arms & ended up in plaster up to his armpits, his girlfriend helped him onto the toilet & forgot about him & went to work.
 

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
My old partner finished his days on the driving school after 25 years operational (he had to suffer me as his crewmate for 12 years so went for a rest ;) :D ) and we had a golden rule that on the bike I was the boss and in the car he was the boss, simply because I had the higher mark on the bike and he had the higher mark on the car. It worked very well in terms of a partnership and we always stuck our nose in where it wasn't welcome and dealt with the majority of bad crashes that came in when we were on(bearing in mind that we covered a big chunk of a county as opposed to a town like local plod.

Anyway.....I had lunch with my old mate a few months ago. He retired but stayed on as a civilian instructor and saw (in his words) a decline in the quality of copper coming through.

He had one advanced crew who were awaiting posting to a Traffic base pending them passing their advanced course, and there was one individual who really had the qualities to obtain a class 1 even though the class 1 and 2 designation no longer exists.

He sailed through the course and was subsequently posted to a traffic base in the southern region of the force.

3 months later my mate called in to the local nick in the south and there he saw the outstanding student without his white cap top and without his hi viz.

Long story short, it transpired that having passed the course and been posted, he had not realised that in many instances he would be first on scene at the catastrophic crashes and would have to see and deal with some particularly nasty sights. He decided that was not for him and requested a transfer back to division.

When my mate asked him how he dealt with such incidents on division, his reply was "I just designate a junior officer to deal with it"

My mate was stunned...:rolleyes:

Makes you wonder how he would have dealt with the likes of Hungerford and Michael Ryan or the M4 crash the following year that me and my partner were first on scene at and we watched 26 people burn to death
 

Attachments

  • Hungerford Crash.jpg
    Hungerford Crash.jpg
    76.6 KB · Views: 12
  • Hungerford 2.jpg
    Hungerford 2.jpg
    98.8 KB · Views: 12

Cougar377

Express elevator to hell
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Its optical lock in
As much as your forebrain tells you to turn away, your hind brain wants you to go where you are looking
I would guess that as many as 30% of accidents are caused by it.. at least those accidents not involving a 3rd party
It's a variation on target fixation.
 

JayTee

Si vis pacem para bellum
Club Sponsor
Yep target fixation ........ eg you go where you are looking

I have been in the situation a couple of times where I have had to force myself to look where I need to be rather than at what I am in danger of hitting and its a bloody difficult thing to do in the few seconds you have to spare

I went through a similar experience in 1970 I’d just built an immaculate Triton and my mate Dave had acquired a genuine Dresda Autos Triton (Dave Degens special) complete with Morgo 750 conversion and quaife 5 speed cluster, any how a crowd of us got into a tear up with a rallied up Cortina 1600e, all this happened in late November at night by the way. Dave was in front of me and the car swerved out and clipped him and he lost control, the bike was rolling and pitch poling and I was so intent on avoiding the bike IE forcing myself to look where I needed to be I could’nt see Dave laying in the road, I hit him at about 90 mph wrecking my front end and hitting Daves legs in the process, as if the poor sod hadn’t suffered enough another mate coming up fast behind me on a Norbsa did exactly the same.
Upshot was Dave got away lucky, badly bruised and lost a few teeth his girlfriend on the back ended up 3 weeks in a coma but recovered completely from a fractured skull. Me and me other mate got away with minor cuts, abrasions and bruises .We were all a bit subdued for quite some time after that.
Bikes can be a lot of fun but by the frilly cringe we’re bloody vulnerable.
 

slim63

Never surrender
Club Sponsor
I went through a similar experience in 1970 I’d just built an immaculate Triton and my mate Dave had acquired a genuine Dresda Autos Triton (Dave Degens special) complete with Morgo 750 conversion and quaife 5 speed cluster, any how a crowd of us got into a tear up with a rallied up Cortina 1600e, all this happened in late November at night by the way. Dave was in front of me and the car swerved out and clipped him and he lost control, the bike was rolling and pitch poling and I was so intent on avoiding the bike IE forcing myself to look where I needed to be I could’nt see Dave laying in the road, I hit him at about 90 mph wrecking my front end and hitting Daves legs in the process, as if the poor sod hadn’t suffered enough another mate coming up fast behind me on a Norbsa did exactly the same.
Upshot was Dave got away lucky, badly bruised and lost a few teeth his girlfriend on the back ended up 3 weeks in a coma but recovered completely from a fractured skull. Me and me other mate got away with minor cuts, abrasions and bruises .We were all a bit subdued for quite some time after that.
Bikes can be a lot of fun but by the frilly cringe we’re bloody vulnerable.
I think the worst one I was party to was when following a mate who was only on a 50 & only 3 weeks into riding on the road, we had just crossed very awkward crossroads I was relieved that he had managed it easily & impeccably, he was a bit in front of me as I had to wait at the cross roads

50 yards or less into the lane we were now on is a sharp right hander, a van going way too fast overshot it & hit my mate head on then managed to get straight & slid to a halt a few yards in front of me, I had heard the bang saw the van, braked could see bits of TS50 all over the shop but couldn't find Mickey

This lane while being as wide as any normal road is sunken with big hedgerows either tide on top of the banks, an off duty copper eventually found him, the other side of the van a good 15 to 20 yards behind it & at least 10 foot in the air on top of one of these hedges seemingly unmarked but dead :(

I don't remember much after that until getting my head together covered in lumps & briuses in the cells at the local nick, apparently I had done my level best to try & kill the van driver & it had took a copper & an ambulance man to get me off him

Wanker got a 2 year ban and a small fine :mad:
 

Pow-Lo

Make civil the mind, make savage the body.
Club Sponsor
My old partner finished his days on the driving school after 25 years operational (he had to suffer me as his crewmate for 12 years so went for a rest ;) :D ) and we had a golden rule that on the bike I was the boss and in the car he was the boss, simply because I had the higher mark on the bike and he had the higher mark on the car. It worked very well in terms of a partnership and we always stuck our nose in where it wasn't welcome and dealt with the majority of bad crashes that came in when we were on(bearing in mind that we covered a big chunk of a county as opposed to a town like local plod.

Anyway.....I had lunch with my old mate a few months ago. He retired but stayed on as a civilian instructor and saw (in his words) a decline in the quality of copper coming through.

He had one advanced crew who were awaiting posting to a Traffic base pending them passing their advanced course, and there was one individual who really had the qualities to obtain a class 1 even though the class 1 and 2 designation no longer exists.

He sailed through the course and was subsequently posted to a traffic base in the southern region of the force.

3 months later my mate called in to the local nick in the south and there he saw the outstanding student without his white cap top and without his hi viz.

Long story short, it transpired that having passed the course and been posted, he had not realised that in many instances he would be first on scene at the catastrophic crashes and would have to see and deal with some particularly nasty sights. He decided that was not for him and requested a transfer back to division.

When my mate asked him how he dealt with such incidents on division, his reply was "I just designate a junior officer to deal with it"

My mate was stunned...:rolleyes:

Makes you wonder how he would have dealt with the likes of Hungerford and Michael Ryan or the M4 crash the following year that me and my partner were first on scene at and we watched 26 people burn to death
The one nasty fatality I investigated was on the Thames at Northfleet on a self-unloading bulk carrier. Without getting too technical, the holds open at the bottom and the cargo drops onto two conveyer belts. These belts run under deck, the length of the entire section of the holds and they converge to drop onto a single conveyor which then sends the cargo up on deck and over the side.

Young Filipino seaman on duty during the night somehow got himself caught in the rollers of the port conveyor and you can guess the rest. Two coppers attended, one male one female, and the burd was led away by a paramedic puking herself inside out. After the mess had been cleaned up, I found his glove under the conveyor with his hand still in it. It took a while to get the blood, bone and tissue off the soles of my boots and I was a vegetablist for two days after.

I had to put a warning regarding the graphic content of the photos in the covering email with my report, they were that bad. Poor bastard was supposed to be going home to get married in two months.
 

T.C

Been there, and had one
Club Sponsor
The one nasty fatality I investigated was on the Thames at Northfleet on a self-unloading bulk carrier. Without getting too technical, the holds open at the bottom and the cargo drops onto two conveyer belts. These belts run under deck, the length of the entire section of the holds and they converge to drop onto a single conveyor which then sends the cargo up on deck and over the side.

Young Filipino seaman on duty during the night somehow got himself caught in the rollers of the port conveyor and you can guess the rest. Two coppers attended, one male one female, and the burd was led away by a paramedic puking herself inside out. After the mess had been cleaned up, I found his glove under the conveyor with his hand still in it. It took a while to get the blood, bone and tissue off the soles of my boots and I was a vegetablist for two days after.

I had to put a warning regarding the graphic content of the photos in the covering email with my report, they were that bad. Poor bastard was supposed to be going home to get married in two months.
I feel for you.

I was lucky in that my first dead body was when I was a young bobby and a chap just died in his sleep. He looked very peaceful other than being a little waxy in complexion.

I then progressed up through the ranks of yuk. Those that had been in the river for a few days were not very nice as they became bloated and the fish always ate the eyes.

Burnt bodies (such as the M4 crash above) were nasty as they always smelt of very burnt pork although the soles of the feet never burnt which meant we had decent DNA for identification purposes.

But the one advantage of being on Traffic was that 99 times out of a hundred we dealt with fresh bodies rather than stale decomposing corpses, although I did have one that had cooked in 76 degrees of heat for several days (That smell was something altogether and the probationer was non too pleased either ;) )

Pedestrian got hit by a 32 tonne Artic on the Motorway and was then hit by several other cars at 70 MPH. We had to walk for about a mile and something with black bin liners picking up bits of body.

Another time, 2 service personnel drunk got themselves onto the roof of the train they were travelling on. Didn't see the bridge , took their heads clean off. Driver was non the wiser until he pulled into the station and someone noticed blood coming from the roof of the carriage. Me and my mate were in the area and were asked if we could help BTP search the area for their heads. Found them at the side of the track but they had bounced for quite some distance from point of impact.

You tend to become hardened once you have seen a few hence why the traffic cops black humour kicks in and I could give you a lot of funny stories about the aftermath of such incidents.
 

Pow-Lo

Make civil the mind, make savage the body.
Club Sponsor
I feel for you.

I was lucky in that my first dead body was when I was a young bobby and a chap just died in his sleep. He looked very peaceful other than being a little waxy in complexion.

I then progressed up through the ranks of yuk. Those that had been in the river for a few days were not very nice as they became bloated and the fish always ate the eyes.

Burnt bodies (such as the M4 crash above) were nasty as they always smelt of very burnt pork although the soles of the feet never burnt which meant we had decent DNA for identification purposes.

But the one advantage of being on Traffic was that 99 times out of a hundred we dealt with fresh bodies rather than stale decomposing corpses, although I did have one that had cooked in 76 degrees of heat for several days (That smell was something altogether and the probationer was non too pleased either ;) )

Pedestrian got hit by a 32 tonne Artic on the Motorway and was then hit by several other cars at 70 MPH. We had to walk for about a mile and something with black bin liners picking up bits of body.

Another time, 2 service personnel drunk got themselves onto the roof of the train they were travelling on. Didn't see the bridge , took their heads clean off. Driver was non the wiser until he pulled into the station and someone noticed blood coming from the roof of the carriage. Me and my mate were in the area and were asked if we could help BTP search the area for their heads. Found them at the side of the track but they had bounced for quite some distance from point of impact.

You tend to become hardened once you have seen a few hence why the traffic cops black humour kicks in and I could give you a lot of funny stories about the aftermath of such incidents.
I remember thinking 'the next one will be easier', although we don't get that many. Some spectacular wallops but not much blood and guts.
 
Top