• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.50 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

Bad luck or bad timing?

Duck n Dive

Rebel without a clue ...
Club Sponsor
A few years ago there was an attempt to build on farm land opposite the entrance to our little estate.
It's mostly farms plus a riding school at the moment.
The fields involved are not identified on the local plan yet the council wanted to approve it.

Residents got together and we all chipped into a fund to try and fight it.
Managed to get it appealed and the funds paid a barrister to represent the residents - we won and the land owner/developer were refused.

We're under no illusions that we'll have to fight the battle again and again.
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
I read somewhere that “they” say that Cardiff and Newport will be joined in about ten years, FFS. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
In general it is accepted that separate communities will not be 'joined' in the planning world so separate identities are retained....but, as indicated above, when local authorities are under pressure to meet housing targets anything is possible.

I was involved in a project some years ago to prevent two villages being joined and happily we were successful. The irony is that deciding the usage of the green strip between the two villages caused nothing but trouble for two or three years, a great opportunity to do something good was turned into a problem by the local residents who were so against housing being built on the land.
Keele Golf course across from Keele University has shut and been earmarked for
thousands of new houses..Eventually many of the small mining villiages in North Staffs
like Silverdale and Chesterton will lose their identity and be part of one huge conurbation.
Aunties house at the top end of Congleton used to be surrounded by great countryside and
rural lanes leading to Jodrell Bank and views up to the Peak District...But everywhere that you look
they have thrown up new housing developments..The area has completely changed...And none of the houses
are starter homes for kids....But thats another story..Basically its happening everywhere :mad:
It is a rare thing indeed for any new devopment of any size not to include 'affordable housing', usually an absolute requirement. Not saying it doesn't happen but obtaining planning without it is much more difficult.
 

sr71caspar

B̶a̶n̶n̶e̶d̶
Club Sponsor
It is a rare thing indeed for any new devopment of any size not to include 'affordable housing', usually an absolute requirement. Not saying it doesn't happen but obtaining planning without it is much more difficult.

What is classed as "affordable housing" and what first time buyers can actually afford are shockingly far apart.
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
What is classed as "affordable housing" and what first time buyers can actually afford are shockingly far apart.
Very large developments are often required to include 'shared ownership' at some level to help get those on the lowest incomes into the market.

Re first time buyers, I remain to be convinced that it is harder to get on the ladder now than when I bought my first house in 1980. It was flipping hard then, mortgages were much harder to get (many building societies wouldn't even let you apply unless you had saved with them regularly for two years) and interest rates were around 8%/10% ish for years. We saved hard for two years to get a deposit together and went without the expensive wedding, honeymoon in The Maldives and new cars and holidays for quite a few years after buying to pay the mortgage that we could barely afford on our two up two down terrace.

Maybe what has changed is the level of expectation in society?
 

sr71caspar

B̶a̶n̶n̶e̶d̶
Club Sponsor
Very large developments are often required to include 'shared ownership' at some level to help get those on the lowest incomes into the market.

Re first time buyers, I remain to be convinced that it is harder to get on the ladder now than when I bought my first house in 1980. It was flipping hard then, mortgages were much harder to get (many building societies wouldn't even let you apply unless you had saved with them regularly for two years) and interest rates were around 8%/10% ish for years. We saved hard for two years to get a deposit together and went without the expensive wedding, honeymoon in The Maldives and new cars and holidays for quite a few years after buying to pay the mortgage that we could barely afford on our two up two down terrace.

Maybe what has changed is the level of expectation in society?

House prices round here start at around £240k, mortgages used to be based on 3 x joint salary. So first time buyers need a joint salary of £80k.

The Doris and I barely have a joint salary of £45k.

You are fucking deluded.
 

Minkey

Ok it was me
Club Sponsor
I live in a village and last year someone wanted to build 13 5 bedroom houses, up until now planning permission has been squashed, if anything we could do with a couple of affordable homes for local kids
 

Pow-Lo

I am Grasshopper!
Club Sponsor
Half way from my old village & the next which is a distance of about 3 miles there are 2 expensive houses one side of the road & a farm the other, behind the houses there was what we called the 19 acre field (although I don't know the exact size it was big) being almost at the top of a hill the views from any of those places were unspoilt across the 19 acre & for about 4 miles beyond, that field is now a building site :mad:

My old gaffer & good mate used to live in one of the houses, it was worth £400,000 about 3 years ago when he sold, my guess is there has been a big chunk lopped off the value now

The other thing that comes to mind is the village school, its a proper quaint little thing as you would expect from such a small village so I am wondering how it will cope with an influx of new kids as more families move in to the completed new builds, my guess is the quality of education will suffer & the road will be even more blocked outside as more twats rock up in their posh cars twice a day to save themselves a (literally) 3 minute walk in some cases
They can’t build by me at all. Behind is two houses and in the grounds just behind them runs a mahooosive water pipe that supplies Engerrlund and a little further up the mountain is Pontypridd golf club. There’s houses opposite me and beyond them is the Common and they can’t build there either.
 

Pow-Lo

I am Grasshopper!
Club Sponsor
Very large developments are often required to include 'shared ownership' at some level to help get those on the lowest incomes into the market.

Re first time buyers, I remain to be convinced that it is harder to get on the ladder now than when I bought my first house in 1980. It was flipping hard then, mortgages were much harder to get (many building societies wouldn't even let you apply unless you had saved with them regularly for two years) and interest rates were around 8%/10% ish for years. We saved hard for two years to get a deposit together and went without the expensive wedding, honeymoon in The Maldives and new cars and holidays for quite a few years after buying to pay the mortgage that we could barely afford on our two up two down terrace.

Maybe what has changed is the level of expectation in society?
It’s much harder to get on the ladder now as first time buyers are required to have much larger deposits than when I bought my first house back in 1993. Also, properties, in general terms, have increased in price/value disproportionately in comparison to salaries.

I saved like a bastard for years to buy my first house on my own. After an unfortunate sequence of events, I ended up being a first time buyer again in 2001 with The-Artist-Later-To-Be-Known-As-Mrs P.

When we bought our second house back in 2002, we went to the bank and we were offered a mortgage of up to £330k and we were jointly earning about one sixth of that.

We did have the honeymoon in the Maldives but we did everything else (apart from the rings and photographer) a lot cheaper than most and saved where we could, which included getting married on a Wednesday. In doing so, we were able to keep money back for the deposit for our second house.

I’m not sure where your head is at Andrew but lenders used to throw money at people not so long ago but things have tightened up significantly in recent years. We had to jump through hoops to get a mortgage for this place and our credit ratings are way up there; we had to provide proof of our savings with which we were paying for the deposit and the amount we wanted to borrow was less than 3 x our joint incomes.

House prices round here start at around £240k, mortgages used to be based on 3 x joint salary. So first time buyers need a joint salary of £80k.

The Doris and I barely have a joint salary of £45k.

You are fucking deluded.
Mortgages still are 3 x joint income. First time buyers on the prices you’ve quoted would need a joint salary of about £72k as they be expected to spunk up 10% of the price as a deposit. They’d also need the cash for stamp duty as it can’t be added to the mortgage any more.

He’s not deluded. He made some fair points, apart from being just as hard to get on the property ladder back then. It wasn’t, it was way easier.
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
House prices round here start at around £240k, mortgages used to be based on 3 x joint salary. So first time buyers need a joint salary of £80k.

The Doris and I barely have a joint salary of £45k.

You are fucking deluded.
No need for the rudeness.

First time buyers do not have to live in an area of £240k houses. Our first place was in an area of 1920s terraces and our second was in an area of three bed semis. Cloth cut to fit.

My turf is not an area for the vast majority of first time buyers based on values. However, there are plenty of areas in the town centre where prices are lower and as such that is the landing area for first time buyers. There is also newhaven just along the coast, not a particularly nice place in my opinion and house prices reflect this - that is also an area for first time buyers. Move along the coast a bit and you get to Brighton and prices are through the roof = not an area for first time buyers.

Maybe I was right about 'entitlement'.....
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
It’s much harder to get on the ladder now as first time buyers are required to have much larger deposits than when I bought my first house back in 1993. Also, properties, in general terms, have increased in price/value disproportionately in comparison to salaries.

I saved like a bastard for years to buy my first house on my own. After an unfortunate sequence of events, I ended up being a first time buyer again in 2001 with The-Artist-Later-To-Be-Known-As-Mrs P.

When we bought our second house back in 2002, we went to the bank and we were offered a mortgage of up to £330k and we were jointly earning about one sixth of that.

We did have the honeymoon in the Maldives but we did everything else (apart from the rings and photographer) a lot cheaper than most and saved where we could, which included getting married on a Wednesday. In doing so, we were able to keep money back for the deposit for our second house.

I’m not sure where your head is at Andrew but lenders used to throw money at people not so long ago but things have tightened up significantly in recent years. We had to jump through hoops to get a mortgage for this place and our credit ratings are way up there; we had to provide proof of our savings with which we were paying for the deposit and the amount we wanted to borrow was less than 3 x our joint incomes.


Mortgages still are 3 x joint income. First time buyers on the prices you’ve quoted would need a joint salary of about £72k as they be expected to spunk up 10% of the price as a deposit. They’d also need the cash for stamp duty as it can’t be added to the mortgage any more.

He’s not deluded. He made some fair points, apart from being just as hard to get on the property ladder back then. It wasn’t, it was way easier.
"I'm not sure where your head is,, lenders throwing money at borrowers' etc - yes I agree (about the second bit!) - they certainly were not chucking money at borrowers in 1980 (the timeframe specifically mentioned in my post) so I think your comment is not aligned wth my statement.

Who would have thought it on this forum!

Either way, I stand by what I said - I don't think it's any harder today than it was when we bought our first place. From memory I would say our combined salaries were around 20% of the value of the property we bought and we saved like mad for two years to scrape a deposit together. Delayed having children until we had been married for eight years as we couldn't afford to have them as the mortgage was so heavy.

Not looking for sympathy, just saying it as it was. It's tough getting on the property ladder, and it cetrtainly needs working for.
 

Pow-Lo

I am Grasshopper!
Club Sponsor
"I'm not sure where your head is,, lenders throwing money at borrowers' etc - yes I agree (about the second bit!) - they certainly were not chucking money at borrowers in 1980 (the timeframe specifically mentioned in my post) so I think your comment is not aligned wth my statement.

Who would have thought it on this forum!

Either way, I stand by what I said - I don't think it's any harder today than it was when we bought our first place. From memory I would say our combined salaries were around 20% of the value of the property we bought and we saved like mad for two years to scrape a deposit together. Delayed having children until we had been married for eight years as we couldn't afford to have them as the mortgage was so heavy.

Not looking for sympathy, just saying it as it was. It's tough getting on the property ladder, and it cetrtainly needs working for.
My post wasn’t misaligned with your statement, not deliberately anyway. My first house wasn’t that far behind yours in terms of time frame and I had much less trouble getting a mortgage then than what we did recently. In order not lose this place, we really had to jump through hoops. By the time we’d paid the other mortgage off, paid the deposit on this place and the bastard stamp duty we were well over six figures lighter.

Things now have tightened up to the point that kids have to prove that their savings are their own and not a bung from their parents.

You are spot on re entitlement.
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
My post wasn’t misaligned with your statement, not deliberately anyway. My first house wasn’t that far behind yours in terms of time frame and I had much less trouble getting a mortgage then than what we did recently. In order not lose this place, we really had to jump through hoops. By the time we’d paid the other mortgage off, paid the deposit on this place and the bastard stamp duty we were well over six figures lighter.

Things now have tightened up to the point that kids have to prove that their savings are their own and not a bung from their parents.

You are spot on re entitlement.
A good deal of that tightening up is down to money laundering regulations that have made anything financial difficult in recent years - and rightly so.

Also deregulation of the markets in 1986 ('Big Bang') flooded the financial markets with new players at a time when credit was cheap on the wholesale market thus disrupting the safe and prudent mortgage market - some lenders were offering 110% mortgages to get market share. That was when it started becoming silly easy to get mortgages and other than a few blips that didn't really change until the financial crisis in 2008 when prudence AKA 'common sense' kicked in again.
 

slim63

Never surrender
Club Sponsor
Going from the building in this area at the moment "affordable housing" means financed by housing associations & as such those homes are for rent rather than for sale & even those built on the same estates that are for sale are much posher (read expensive) than the "affordable" ones which leaves first time buyers with nowhere to go

What I glean from this is that affordable housing is a myth, financers are building them to meet government requirements but most are not for sale as above
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
They can’t build by me at all. Behind is two houses and in the grounds just behind them runs a mahooosive water pipe that supplies Engerrlund and a little further up the mountain is Pontypridd golf club. There’s houses opposite me and beyond them is the Common and they can’t build there either.
The water pipe is a good protector from development (as are railways limnes and major roads) but golf courses aren't - they have closed in their droves in the recent past and there have been cases where clubs have specifically closed to be developed for housing (at the end of the day money nearly always talks). My son's house is built on Horsell Common due to a quirk in planning law involving previous usage of the land.

Nowhere is bulletproof I'm afraid as the spectre of government targets for new housing hangs like a black cloud over every district council.

Gosh, I seem to have joined the @derek kelly Wet Blanket Society:D
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Going from the building in this area at the moment "affordable housing" means financed by housing associations & as such those homes are for rent rather than for sale & even those built on the same estates that are for sale are much posher (read expensive) than the "affordable" ones which leaves first time buyers with nowhere to go

What I glean from this is that affordable housing is a myth, financers are building them to meet government requirements but most are not for sale as above
You are not wrong but there is also 'shared ownership' in the mix, designed to help those who want to get on the ladder but wouldn't be able,to,do so otherwise. Not saying it is great, but it has helped plenty over the years.
 

Pow-Lo

I am Grasshopper!
Club Sponsor
The water pipe is a good protector from development (as are railways limnes and major roads) but golf courses aren't - they have closed in their droves in the recent past and there have been cases where clubs have specifically closed to be developed for housing (at the end of the day money nearly always talks). My son's house is built on Horsell Common due to a quirk in planning law involving previous usage of the land.

Nowhere is bulletproof I'm afraid as the spectre of government targets for new housing hangs like a black cloud over every district council.

Gosh, I seem to have joined the @derek kelly Wet Blanket Society:D
They tried to build further up the mountain in the past and the water pipe effectively put the blockers on it, so it gonna happen.

As I said above, I don’t understand the need for developing on new land when there’s plenty of dilapidated areas that can be demolished and re-built.
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
They tried to build further up the mountain in the past and the water pipe effectively put the blockers on it, so it gonna happen.

As I said above, I don’t understand the need for developing on new land when there’s plenty of dilapidated areas that can be demolished and re-built.
Simple answer - profit!

Eastbourne has lost two major department stores in the last couple of years, prime town centre locations for redevelopment into flats - which is what the council,want - but the profit just isn't there for developers. A nice piece of flattish ground with nothing on it much more desirable unfortunately.
 
Top