Backhanders

[andyBeaker]

I see what you are saying 100% I suppose its different in different area's any house that pops up on this estate is sold within a couple of days, a wrecked house like ours was before I rebuilt the place is going to knock you for 150k bare minimum & there is not many young couples just starting out that can afford that + the refurb costs due to the reduced wages in the area bought about by the influx of cheap migrant workers

One house directly over the road sold a few months ago & has been fully refitted from the roof down with extensions to the back & side & I know the builder had at least 40K off them add that to the purchase price (175) & none of the 6 en suite rooms in there are going to be cheap yet it was full within 3 days, such is the shortage of housing in the area

From a landlords perspective Homes\Houses of Multiple Occupancy give a much higher return than single residency; from a financial perspective it is generally a no-brainier. On the flipside the hassle involved puts many off, and many don’t do it twice!

as for new builds, investors snap them up as they are really easy to rent out, demand is high and accordingly there is a premium on rent. Those factors are driven by the renters, not the landlords. The fact that they usually only require minimal work to prepare for renting also makes them desirable to investors And developers like selling to investors as they are usually very quick transactions.

 

[derek kelly]

About two years ago there was an article on television about new builds, may have been rip off Britain or that Dom Littlewoood thing, it was reported that higher standards were required as the average new build had a list of over twenty faults within the first year, plastering jobs are rushed due to time constraints, garage doors are rarely fitted to the correct tension, kitchens, wardrobes etc are shoddily built etc.

 

[andyBeaker]

About two years ago there was an article on television about new builds, may have been rip off Britain or that Dom Littlewoood thing, it was reported that higher standards were required as the average new build had a list of over twenty faults within the first year, plastering jobs are rushed due to time constraints, garage doors are rarely fitted to the correct tension, kitchens, wardrobes etc are shoddily built etc.

I endorse that.

the problem is that a lot of the work is subcontracted and you normally get what you pay for. This compounds as buyers of new houses assume they are buying perfection. They also assume NHBC will cover everything which is far, far from reality.

a business acquaintance of mine is now taking a slightly different approach to try and maintain quality and get it right first time: he is now subcontracting the management of some smaller elements to people he knows have pride in what they do and can be trusted to see the job through properly. As such I recently did all the work in having ten electric garage doors installed in a new build development he is doing, he told me what he wanted and when he wanted it, we agreed a price, his next involvement was taking delivery of the guarantee certificates post installation. He didn’t have the hassle of negotiating, overseeing installation and quality. Cost him a few quid more but in his eyes well worth it.

 

[slim63]

About two years ago there was an article on television about new builds, may have been rip off Britain or that Dom Littlewoood thing, it was reported that higher standards were required as the average new build had a list of over twenty faults within the first year, plastering jobs are rushed due to time constraints, garage doors are rarely fitted to the correct tension, kitchens, wardrobes etc are shoddily built etc.

Absolutely true !

The problem is a lot of the work like plastering, second fix carpentry etc is on a price (eg so much per house) but the rates are so low at present that the lads have to rush to make a living so mistakes are made, if the employing companies paid a better rate and properly inspected each job before paying the lads the quality would go up massively in days but you cant have both cheap & quality

Some companies employ a couple of lads purely for "snagging" I know because I did that for a while, so thats 2 lads on a decent wage, a van & all the kit for numerous jobs +fuel & overtime etc etc to put right something that should have been right in the first place, I honestly cant see the economic sense in it

 

[Pow-Lo]

Exactly, they are building houses that will fetch over £350,000 ten percent is supposed to be affordable housing, that means flats or cheap semis that would fetch £150,000, these would make it difficult to get the asking price for their elite buildings so two fingers to the council, I think the maximum fine is around £100,000, I believe the +ouncil are fully on board with this, they promise affordable housing knowing it isn’t going to happen then appease everybody by saying “it’s the builder’s fault & we’ve fined them”

Thing is, I’m half on board with builders doing this. Like you said above, if I’m dropping serious wedge on a new home, I don’t want steak and kidney lock openers living anywhere near me. Why should I? What’s the point of working like a bastard and saving like Billy-O to buy my dream house only to have benefit scroungers on my doorstep?

I’ve been a home owner for over 30 years. I know how difficult it is to get on the property ladder and how hard it can be to get a mortgage. However, mixing £100k flats on the same development as £600k ‘luxury’ homes doesn’t work and it never will.

 

[Pow-Lo]

I see what you are saying 100% I suppose its different in different area's any house that pops up on this estate is sold within a couple of days, a wrecked house like ours was before I rebuilt the place is going to knock you for 150k bare minimum & there is not many young couples just starting out that can afford that + the refurb costs due to the reduced wages in the area bought about by the influx of cheap migrant workers

One house directly over the road sold a few months ago & has been fully refitted from the roof down with extensions to the back & side & I know the builder had at least 40K off them add that to the purchase price (175) & none of the 6 en suite rooms in there are going to be cheap yet it was full within 3 days, such is the shortage of housing in the area

Houses used to sell within a week on the estate where our house in Kent is, mainly because its in the catchment area fir three of the top ten grammar schools in England. When we first went on the market in October 2019, ours was ’sold’ before the board went up. It fell through a few days later as they lost their buyer and it was then gone again two weeks later. They pulled out about five weeks in because there’s a sink hold 250 metres away. It went quiet over Christmas and then ‘sold’ again soon after. Twats lost their buyer but didn’t bother telling anyone and then we had Covid. We accepted another offer end of last August but we had to drop £25k and the sale eventually completed week before Christmas.

 

[andyBeaker]

Thing is, I’m half on board with builders doing this. Like you said above, if I’m dropping serious wedge on a new home, I don’t want steak and kidney lock openers living anywhere near me. Why should I? What’s the point of working like a bastard and saving like Billy-O to buy my dream house only to have benefit scroungers on my doorstep?

I’ve been a home owner for over 30 years. I know how difficult it is to get on the property ladder and how hard it can be to get a mortgage. However, mixing £100k flats on the same development as £600k ‘luxury’ homes doesn’t work and it never will.

im with you on that.

the plot I have just bought is in probably the best road in the town, I will be applying for permission to demolish the single dwelling that is there (it’s half demolished already and is a no brainier) but I know I will find it easier to get permission to build maybe four semis that would be completely out of character and price range for the road than a single dwelling. That is down to the council having to hit new build targets.

The problem is that while I am happy to put a single dwelling on the plot, if a developer had got it you can guarantee that the four (or more) semis would go up as they will make more money on it. That is exactly what had started happening in the road where we last lived - every house was of a different design and that really gave the road character- then the developers moved in.......one being knocked down and 2/3/4 rabbit hutches going up.

 

[Pow-Lo]

Absolutely true !

The problem is a lot of the work like plastering, second fix carpentry etc is on a price (eg so much per house) but the rates are so low at present that the lads have to rush to make a living so mistakes are made, if the employing companies paid a better rate and properly inspected each job before paying the lads the quality would go up massively in days but you cant have both cheap & quality

Some companies employ a couple of lads purely for "snagging" I know because I did that for a while, so thats 2 lads on a decent wage, a van & all the kit for numerous jobs +fuel & overtime etc etc to put right something that should have been right in the first place, I honestly cant see the economic sense in it

Our first three houses were new builds, and all built by the builder that shares a name with a British burger chain, albeit different spelling. The first one in 2001 was really good, about four things on the snag list. Second one at end of 2002 was pretty good; a few minor problems and the heating engineer tried bullshitting me by telling me the main radiator was supposed to be on all the time. He wasn’t happy when I showed him the instruction manual to point out what the fault was (if a fuckwit like me could work out what the problem was, then that should tell you a lot about both the fault and the so-called engineer). The third one in Maidstone was a f’ing disaster, the house that Jack built. We ended up having to move out for a week so that the downstairs floors and the four bedroom floors could be re-laid. The list of faults was staggering, the worst being the boiler flue pipe being too short and some of the effluent seeping into the loft.

I don’t ever want to move to a new build again (I don’t want to move again, full stop!). Whilst this house is far from perfect (not a straight wall here and the kitchen floor is 30mm out from one side to the other), I’d take another old property over a new build any day.

 

[slim63]

Thing is, I’m half on board with builders doing this. Like you said above, if I’m dropping serious wedge on a new home, I don’t want steak and kidney lock openers living anywhere near me. Why should I? What’s the point of working like a bastard and saving like Billy-O to buy my dream house only to have benefit scroungers on my doorstep?

I’ve been a home owner for over 30 years. I know how difficult it is to get on the property ladder and how hard it can be to get a mortgage. However, mixing £100k flats on the same development as £600k ‘luxury’ homes doesn’t work and it never will.

You are right to some extent because those with the nice houses are seen as easy prey to those with very little to loose

I think the original idea was to have a mix of people from different backgrounds & different incomes or social status in the same area with the expectation that the standard of living would improve for those on the lower end of the scale, unfortunately some of those from depressed areas cant see the benefit of a decent standard of living so will drag the area down in no time at all

A Good example of the above is a notorious estate in my home town, all the problem families were moved out, all the owned homes were compulsory purchased & the whole lot was demolished in a contract between the council & some social housing companies, now there are twice the amount of shiny new houses & flats & it all looks really good .......
...... but the same old arseholes have moved back in because the council promised they could & the newer people in the posher houses are having to put up with the same old underlying problems despite how nice it looks .............. I wouldnt live there for a big pig

 

[Pow-Lo]

im with you on that.

the plot I have just bought is in probably the best road in the town, I will be applying for permission to demolish the single dwelling that is there (it’s half demolished already and is a no brainier) but I know I will find it easier to get permission to build maybe four semis that would be completely out of character and price range for the road than a single dwelling. That is down to the council having to hit new build targets.

The problem is that while I am happy to put a single dwelling on the plot, if a developer had got it you can guarantee that the four (or more) semis would go up as they will make more money on it. That is exactly what had started happening in the road where we last lived - one being knocked down and 2/3/4 rabbit hutches going up.

Affordable housing is needed, without a shadow of a doubt. However, I really wish someone with more than two brain cells and completely independent of any old boys network (or Socialist cronies) would think it through regarding where to put them. You wouldn’t put a strip joint next to a place of worship so why put affordable housing amidst luxury properties.

 

[Pow-Lo]

You are right to some extent because those with the nice houses are seen as easy prey to those with very little to loose

I think the original idea was to have a mix of people from different backgrounds & different incomes or social status in the same area with the expectation that the standard of living would improve for those on the lower end of the scale, unfortunately some of those from depressed areas cant see the benefit of a decent standard of living so will drag the area down in no time at all

A Good example of the above is a notorious estate in my home town, all the problem families were moved out, all the owned homes were compulsory purchased & the whole lot was demolished in a contract between the council & some social housing companies, now there are twice the amount of shiny new houses & flats & it all looks really good .......
...... but the same old arseholes have moved back in because the council promised they could & the newer people in the posher houses are having to put up with the same old underlying problems despite how nice it looks .............. I wouldnt live there for a big pig

The authorities in Singapore work on a similar principle in the HDB (council flat) buildings. They have a mix of ethnicities in every block so all are seen as equals. By and large it works because people over there tend to behave and have respect for the authorities. It would never work here, not in a million years.

 

[slim63]

Our first three houses were new builds, and all built by the builder that shares a name with a British burger chain, albeit different spelling. The first one in 2001 was really good, about four things on the snag list. Second one at end of 2002 was pretty good; a few minor problems and the heating engineer tried bullshitting me by telling me the main radiator was supposed to be on all the time. He wasn’t happy when I showed him the instruction manual to point out what the fault was (if a fuckwit like me could work out what the problem was, then that should tell you a lot about both the fault and the so-called engineer). The third one in Maidstone was a f’ing disaster, the house that Jack built. We ended up having to move out for a week so that the downstairs floors and the four bedroom floors could be re-laid. The list of faults was staggering, the worst being the boiler flue pipe being too short and some of the effluent seeping into the loft.

I don’t ever want to move to a new build again (I don’t want to move again, full stop!). Whilst this house is far from perfect (not a straight wall here and the kitchen floor is 30mm out from one side to the other), I’d take another old property over a new build any day.

That's a perfect example of how the quality in the building trade has declined over the years, new builds now are getting even worse if you can believe that's possible. the old quality trades are dying out & all you get with a new build is a cheap slapdash job from people with no skill whatsoever

Part of the reason I got out & went to doing renovations on older properties instead was because I could see it coming & wanted no part of it

 

[derek kelly]

You wouldn’t put a strip joint next to a place of worship

Why not? Same clients

 

[slim63]

Affordable housing is needed, without a shadow of a doubt. However, I really wish someone with more than two brain cells and completely independent of any old boys network (or Socialist cronies) would think it through regarding where to put them. You wouldn’t put a strip joint next to a place of worship so why put affordable housing amidst luxury properties.

I see what you are saying but there has to be some balance or we are in danger of creating bigger social divides or a ghetto so yes a 500k+ house in the middle of a 100K social housing block is wrong & wont work for many reasons but what is the solution ?

 

[andyBeaker]

I see what you are saying but there has to be some balance or we are in danger of creating bigger social divides or a ghetto so yes a 500k+ house in the middle of a 100K social housing block is wrong & wont work for many reasons but what is the solution ?

Communism addresses inequality perfecly.

on paper that is, then human nature intervenes in the real world.

 

[Squag1]

Doesn't anybody "supervise/inspect" work????
Self certification is causing serious issues herr. One apartment complex vacated for fire risk, others have owners with bills of thousands to solve defects.

Several schools having major structural faults. In one a panel wall not fixed properly. As far as I recall, not enough bolts.

 

[andyBeaker]

Houses used to sell within a week on the estate where our house in Kent is, mainly because its in the catchment area fir three of the top ten grammar schools in England. When we first went on the market in October 2019, ours was ’sold’ before the board went up. It fell through a few days later as they lost their buyer and it was then gone again two weeks later. They pulled out about five weeks in because there’s a sink hold 250 metres away. It went quiet over Christmas and then ‘sold’ again soon after. Twats lost their buyer but didn’t bother telling anyone and then we had Covid. We accepted another offer end of last August but we had to drop £25k and the sale eventually completed week before Christmas.

It’s a stupid and archaic system in this country. Scottish system isn’t perfect but it is harder for buyers to walk away.

probably won’t make you feel better to know I completed ten days after having my offer accepted on the plot I have bought, mainly achived by not doing the normal searches where there are even bigger delays than normal at present.

 

[Pow-Lo]

That's a perfect example of how the quality in the building trade has declined over the years, new builds now are getting even worse if you can believe that's possible. the old quality trades are dying out & all you get with a new build is a cheap slapdash job from people with no skill whatsoever

Part of the reason I got out & went to doing renovations on older properties instead was because I could see it coming & wanted no part of it

Took me six months to find a French polisher so yes, the trades are dying.

 

[Pow-Lo]

I see what you are saying but there has to be some balance or we are in danger of creating bigger social divides or a ghetto so yes a 500k+ house in the middle of a 100K social housing block is wrong & wont work for many reasons but what is the solution ?

I‘m not sure what the solution is but I wouldn’t mind having a £100k one bed house next to my £600k five bed detached if I knew the neighbours were decent people that knew how to behave.

I suppose the solution is to clean up the streets but in a society where it’s not socially unacceptable to give a chopsy kid a clip round the ear, what chance have we?

 

[Pow-Lo]

It’s a stupid and archaic system in this country. Scottish system isn’t perfect but it is harder for buyers to walk away.

probably won’t make you feel better to know I completed ten days after having my offer accepted on the plot I have bought, mainly achived by not doing the normal searches where there are even bigger delays than normal at present.

Our delayed completion was down to the idiots claiming to be lawyers employed by our buyers. It could and should have been done in eight weeks.

Mrs P refers to the American system where the sale completes within a week of the offer being accepted. Maybe that’s too quick but it should certainly be done within a month.