• Welcome to the new B.I.R.D. Forum. Please be sure to read the "New Member / New Registered ? Please Read" thread in the Coffee Shop. This contains some important information. To become a full member ( £5.90 a year ) simply click on your user name near the top on the right I hope you enjoy the new site ................ Jaws ( John )

If Carlsberg Made Motorcycles....

  • Thread starter Black7
  • Start date

57grant

Registered User
If its a V4 then its not a bird, you cannot engineer the super smooth balanced engine that completes the sublime experience of a bird with a V4 config!

Grant
 
1

1BadBird

Guest
Jaws- I have to disagree with you there old chum fl4g71 I test rode one and thought it was the best bike I'd ever been on. However, they could have put a bit more character into it- it is over refined.

A 'proper' V4, 1300 Blackbird would be the dogs danglies though. Loads of low rev wallop, tons of character, plus a ride of rich creamy torque @tu*

OK so why not a CBR1200XX built out of the UK by V&M racing? is 200mph enough for ya?

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0009_vm_racing_honda_cbr1200xx/
 

bikesnoopy

Registered User
I suppose the comparason that the OP made between the Blackbird & ZZR1400 are the same as the comparasons i made with the Blackbird when i was a serial ZZR1100 pilot many moons ago.

After 4 ZZR1100s, i tried the Blackbird & i found it "sterile" by comparason & totally lacking in character compared to the ZZR. It did just about everything better than the ZZR, yet it all felt a bit too easy. Easy to ride, easy to stop, easy to handle, lighter & more nimble, but at the time i wasn't sure that i preferred it over the ZZR.

Now im on my 4th Blackbird & i have to admit, they do get under your skin. It just takes longer.
Im not saying the ZZR1100 is a bad bike, in a direct comparason, the Blackbird moved things along a bit - more in the refinement department than anywhere else IMO.
I was lucky enough to own both a Blackbird AND a ZZR1100 at the same time, so could compare them directly against each other.

The ZZR came out in - i believe 1990. 6 years on & the Blackbird was the "next generation", just as the ZZR1100 was after the monsters from the 80s. . . and then again, a few years on the ZZR1400 is again the "next generation".

Obviously, things have moved on again & the ZZR1400 is arguably the better bike - but, the Blackbird remains such a bloody good all round bike & the difference is smaller. The Blackbird has more character, just like the ZZR1100 did for me all those years ago.

Just my ten penneth!
 
H

HoppityDog

Guest
I'm looking for a Bb at the moment and have to admit I've been very tempted by the zzr14, at least until I see the prices. The cheapest here is still at least 1500-2k euros more than a seriously good bird, and nearly treble a decent one. I could get a lot of accessories, insurance and a great holiday for that, and I doubt I'd seriously miss the speed or whatever else improvements it has. So as much as I'd aspire to one, I think it'd be a bit daft really.
 

gregsw

Registered User
Hi Black7,

1st post as a new member this week. Read your book and enjoyed the sentiment. I experienced the same conflicting emotions as the 4 headlights pierced my soul in the Kawasaki showroom. We rode our 57 Bird for back to back comparison.

Consider myself as experienced biker of 63 vintage.

ZZR14 (2013). To get the negative out of the way. I have 2 points which are:

This current model has exhausts bigger than a very big thing which makes it impossible to fit hard luggage. I know sw motech or whoever will prob sort a fixing kit but as a sports tourer it is a big oversight.

Those analogue clocks are ok but it defo needs digital back up that is switchable to kmh. There is no way you could judge your speed without sticking markers onto dial. I don't give a toss about my avg speed and outside temp when speed cameras would have shredded my licence.

Styling is subjective, I personally thing the Kawa looks good.

Ok, we get aboard what feels like starship enterprise after ageing Blackbird facia. Select full power mode and turn off traction control (thought I'd back into the corners so missus could get use to sensation!)

We both thought bike was instantly comfortable, certainly not worse than Honda. There is no comparison regarding performance and braking. We went home on what felt like a CB500, it honestly made the Bird feel flat at first.

Bored with typing now . . . will tell you end of story if desired.
 

joe mack

Registered User
hear hear!!!!!

I don?t know if there ever was a link between Honda and the eponymous brewer of Scandinavian lager ...but it?s tempting to think there might have been a can or two hanging around the Honda design team canteen around 1996. How else could they have come up with something as extraordinary and one-off as the Blackbird proved to be?

There have been moments in engineering like it before ? RJ Mitchell?s Spitfire, or Ford?s GT40:violin:. Things that are more than just the sum of their parts; machines that do more than you ask; technology with soul, benchmarks of quality. It?s not a linear thing ? not smooth evolution. Take the new VFR 1200 as an example - more of an ugly awkward, over complicated backward leap that a step forward to my mind.

Perhaps it?s not up to the engineers or designers, perhaps every so many years things just come together at random (or under alcoholic inspiration) to produce the exceptional. They certainly did with the CBR 1100XX. And, just like the Spitfire, while it can be overtaken, it cannot really be replaced.

Yesterday, something happened that proves it. A mate and I took a trip to our local Bike Bandit (AKA dealership) and borrowed the two fastest bikes in the world; a brand new 2011 ZZR1400 with 40 miles on the clock and a 2011 Hyabusa with about the same. It was a fine, if windy day and we figured we?d have a play on some familiar riding territory in North Wiltshire.

I took the ZZR, he hopped on the ?Busa, and we did a 60 mile loop taking in country lanes, fast A roads and a short stretch of the M4. I didn?t ride the Suzuki - my real interest was in comparing the Kawasaki with my own Blackbird.

I was part expecting to come away wanting the new bike. After all, there had been plenty of hype, and I love large capacity machines with lots of power and which could handle well. The black and green paint scheme was the dog?s danglers too. Just brilliant. R#?

It felt like an illicit affair, with the ?wife? safely garaged while I was running around the countryside with a younger model. I felt disloyal and dirty, in an agreeable weekend-in-Brighton-sort-of-way. Yet, at the end of the day, when I flipped up the garage door, I knew the Blackbird would not be going. Here?s why.

The Kawasaki (like many of its forebears) is all about the engine. Or, more accurately, about going and stopping. Fuelling is crisp; acceleration is rapid and gear changes silky smooth. Progress is effortless, sending the rider surging down the road on rising a tide of power. But, just in case this tide carries you into trouble, it slows as fast as it goes; powerful radial brakes hauling the bike down from licence losing speeds as quickly as if you had just chucked the titanic?s anchor out.


The ZZR is also more up to date in terms of instrumentation and adjustability than the Honda; it looks more modern, feels lighter and more flickable. Front forks are adjustable over a number of parameters; there is a gear indicator, voltmeter and trip computer. Styling is aggressive and street cred established. Not hard to see why it?s a popular machine, and in a number of separate areas of engineering, it is an advance on the ?Bird.:eek:

But here?s the rub. The difficult to explain and harder to define part. When I asked myself whether I would trade the bird for the Kwacker, I didn?t have to think long. Not A Chance. No Way. Never.

It could have been the less planted feel of the Kawasaki. The 1400cc machine wobbled like a drunk at New Year?s in side winds, especially on the motorway, and although it would turn in faster than the Bird, never felt so fluid through the bends. Ride comfort, while not bad, was also not in Blackbird territory. For a short Sunday blast it was a fine, but there was no doubt in my mind which machine I?d rather munch more miles on.

It could also have been down to poorer build quality. The Kawasaki?s low grade metal fasteners had already begun to discolour at just 40 miles, while the chain guard looked as though it had last done service on a kid?s push-bike. Paint finish on wheels and engine were also poor and unlikely to last its first winter. Big contrast there to the CBR1100, the paintwork and stainless steel fastenings of which are still shining brightly on my 11 year old machine (and yes, it is ridden through winter).

Even in the areas it?s good at; engine, transmission and brakes; the ZZR is still not that much better than the ?Bird to make a change worth-while. This is true even in terms of its ultimate claim to fame; speed and acceleration. If pushed, the Kawasaki is certainly faster, especially at the upper end of the dial. Question is; how much time are most riders likely to spend there? At more real world speeds (40-100 mph, say) the two bikes are pretty much comparable. This ?everyday rideability? difference is important. Even though the bottom end on the big K has been improved over the pre 2008 models, it still doesn?t feel anymore smooth or powerful than its 11 year old rival. On the road, the outcome of any meeting would be down to the rider.:-0)

But the truth is, the difference between the two bikes is more than any number of carefully collected facts. In the end it comes down to the indefinable joy of the Blackbird experience; something total, something completely absorbing, where all the characteristics of the machine come together in something that is complete and about as perfect as anything made by man can be. The Honda allows a complete merging of rider and machine; with the Kawasaki, its still rider and bike. Together, but separate. A Spitfire pilot once told me that you didn?t feel you?d climbed into the cockpit of a Spitfire and taken off; it was more like strapping its wings onto you back and flying away. Same thing with the big Honda.


So here is the question that?s as perplexing and as mysterious as the genesis of the Blackbird itself; why on earth did Honda stop making it? At a time when average rider age is lengthening, the Bird makes so much sense; an attractive package that combines looks and performance, the power of a sports bike but with the comfort of a tourer to cosset aged bones. And all that at a very reasonable price.

The Blackbird just does it all; power is smooth, finely balanced between low down grunt and top end, reaching levels fast enough for the blue lights brigade to take an unhealthy interest in your licence. Handling is supple, yet planted and comfortable even on spending cut hit British roads. It all comes together is a way that?s civilised yet exciting; powerful and elegant. The Kawasaki was fast but without the finesse. If the Kawa is the Bullet Train, the Blackbird is the Orient Express.

It seems to me that what Honda need to do next is simple. Get half a dozen top designers together with some actual Blackbird owners, lay in some Danish lager:beer: and resurrect the best bike that ever rode the tarmac of this world. With apparently no real completion the market is wide open.k1ap

I've been to europe a few times over the years. First few times on the VFR 800 ( non V-Tech), a fabulous machine. So it was with some trepidation that I took the plunge and changed for a blackbird.
I was delighted with the performace,and the only concessions i made comfort wise was a custom seat and I raised the bars by 30mm.
I went to Italy and spain a few times with no issues and could sit comfortably with purpose built touring bikes all day.
I hadn't been in four years, I'm in my early fifties and was wary that a few niggly back pains and neck problems might spoil my trip on the blackbird and so I went about looking for an alternative.
In the end i couldn't find anything that gave me the same feedback and joy on a weekend run that could justify changing just for the comfort for a few weeks holiday and so I kept the old girl.
Well.....on day one i took of from donegal , on the west coast of Ireland. 3 hours to dublin, 2 hours ferry to Wales and 6 hours to folkestone, channell tunnel and bed for the night in Calais after a long day....all well, no aches.
A week in the south of France and a few days up and down every coll and alpine pas between france, switzerland and italy...happy days!!
Work commitments called me home early...Took off after breakfast from lake Geneva, across northern france, channell tunnel at midnight, across england ( M25 at 3am at 130mph with 5 lanes to myself!!!!, mornigng ferry to dublin and 3 hours to donegal......1975kms straight with no stops barring fuel and ferries..and not a word of protest from the old girl.....what a lady...The blackbird has to be the benchmark that everything else should be measured against!!!!!!
 

ridgeback05

Registered User
Wow

Good write up! GIVE THAT MAN A JOB. After reading it I too have had a stickey! excellent climax too.

Makes you proud to own a Bird. Black too with carbs@tu*

Black7 check your bank statement, the Rev.John at Jaws has put a tidy few ????'s your way, the non converted will be, as we speak trawling flebay for for a BIRD! Thus ensuring an ever increasing new buying flock to bump up his retirement pot.
 
G

greenbriggs9

Guest
I have read this article before.
On another website, tonight.
How curious... Lol
 

mandoman

Registered User
great write up. would love to get my hands on a v&m tuned bird. anyone got one? the bird is my third bike in a year.bought a suzuki 125 to practice on in febuary took a test in may, passed. bought a vfr800 and loved it. started researching the bird and write ups like that convinced me to buy one.
 

DLN1965

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
Thread should be locked and made into a sticky!

With all the praise the Bird got .... Thought it was already made into a sticky .... Certainly stickier than some of Andy's monthly b(w)anking mags 8rfl@
 

andyBeaker

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Club Sponsor
I have this afternoon visited the carlsberg factory in Copenhagen and can categorically report that they do not make Blackbirds.

They do, however, have a very, very nice tasting session.:copas:
 

Mitch

Registered User
Great write-up, Black7... you're obviously looking for a Hacks job at "RIDE" or "MCN" o_O. Seriously, good write-up .... even if a touch over romantic about the Bird;)!
 
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